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January 11, 2011 by Stephen Foskett

RtF1.3: Data Protection, Automatic Provisioning, and Storage Management

The first episode of Raising the Floor, the enterprise datacenter podcast from Foskett Services, features thought leaders from two key cloud storage-enabling companies:

  1. Josh Goldstein, VP of Marketing, Cirtas
  2. Andres Rodriguez, Founder and CEO, Nasuni

This discussion is moderated by Stephen Foskett, founder of Foskett Services.

We continue our conversation talking about some of the advanced features of cloud storage gateways: Data protection with snapshots, automatic provisioning, and easier storage management.

Stephen: So you are tackling the file related issues and Josh, I understand that Cirtas is tackling the issues related to block storage. Now, I think that’s actually a different kind of jump than file systems.

Josh: There is some things that are different and there’s a lot of things that are the same. So, in our case, what we are doing is presenting a standard iSCSI target so that you access are going to revert iSCSI block protocols. And the way you interact with the system would be very much familiar to you from using any other iSCSI storage array. So, you would go in provision volumes, everything is still provision. So, you can expose to your observers whatever capacity you would like without that happening any corresponding charge in the cloud other than what you are actually writing in per data.

So, as an example, I can give a server a five terabyte volume to use very easily and from the operating systems perspective on that server, he has five terabytes and disk space but you have not been charge to send by your cloud provider by provisioning that volume. It’s only going to be based on what you actually write into it.

And then again, as Andres mentioned; and this is very important in this world, you want to look at only the deltas of information coming in as far as what’s going up to the cloud. So this system needs to be able to de-duplicate and compress information as well as to version it.

And in our case we, like Nasuni does; take snapshots of data on each volume at user defined intervals. So this gives you logical data protections layer that overlays on top of the physical data protection you’re getting from the cloud providers.

Those two things together are why you don’t need to do separate backups when you’re using these systems as primary data stores. The protection that is inherent in backups is just there for you automatically without having to run the backup process.

Stephen: Yeah because you’re using snapshot technology as an alternative data protection method.

Josh: That’s exactly right. So the two elements of data protection are going to come down to physical data protection, in other words, what do I do if the driver or site fails? That’s what the cloud providers are doing. And then there is the logical data protection, which is what do I do if somebody deletes a file they care about? Or we get a virus and it causes a problem, database gets corrupted? In those kinds of events you’re going to do a logical rollback even though the underlying storage system hasn’t had any physical problems to it.

Stephen: So that is where snapshotting technology is critical?

Andres: Stephen, one thing I want to add to Josh’s comment. So when he mentioned the ability to provision say a five terabyte volume, but your paying for as much as you get in the cloud. One of the really interesting things about that is that Josh is essentially describing thin provisioning in the classic sense. But unlike doing thin provisioning and this is the cloud is automatically provisioned. So he is essentially provisioning the volume. But then the volume is growing gradually, smoothly without any administrative interference. Without you having to worry about it; the volume is filling in its data as it goes. And that is one of the things we talked about in the beginning.

The cloud really allows you to build a different type of storage system, because automatic provisioning is really thin provisioning should be but isn’t. When you’re talking about physical linked arrays that are limited by actual hard drives, you know, running, spindles running in your datacenter.

Stephen: Yeah, that’s one of the items that I am trying to basically get across to the world. Cloud storage is the next generation of thin provisioning. It’s this automatic provisioning, this idea that as I need storage I get it and as I stop needing it I don’t have to pay for it anymore. And that is really revolutionary; I mean that’s a really totally new thing. Does that give you the kind of economics that people want from storage though? I mean, is de-duplication and automatic provisioning, is that enough to justify the cost of cloud storage. When you can go to a store and spend a hundred dollars and get a terabyte of disk storage?

Andres: So you’re never going to be able to compete with Best Buy drives. They’re cheaper; the cloud is more expensive than that. If you look at the Amazon costs by themselves, you’re going to be looking at about five dollars per gigabyte over a three-year period. That is very, very close to the cost of primary storage array technology. If you were talking about a left-hand or an ecological array, you would be talking in that range. Now what is interesting about the cloud is even if you are paying about the same amount for the primary piece, the load that you are taking off the protection environment. Everything that you have behind that to protect that storage. Whether it’s a second site, whether its your backup server and targeting say, some data domain or some data de-duplication box in the backup stream. That what gets above simpler because now you’re relying on the cloud for doing all of that work.

So I think when looking at the cloud for cost, it’s very important to not just stop at the hard drive or primary cost level and really try to look at your cost as it ripples through your environment for protection.

Stephen: Because there’s even more than data protection as well. You have to think about storage management and planning and migration forward. That’s another thing I think people often overlook is the fact that you can freely migrate forward using cloud storage because there is no migration. It just exists and when things are updated, they’re updated and you just never even know it. You don’t even notice that things are happening.

Josh: What Nasuni and Cirtas are addressing are all of those things. It’s not just the capacity in giving you inexpensive capacity. But it’s making the whole cost of your data life cycle with really solid data protection and really solid disaster recovery. Something completely viable that you can do with the cloud. So, in our case, you’re going to be able to store data. That data is going to be protected in the same way as if it had been backed up but you’re not going to have the costs of developing those backup systems.

You’re also not going to have the costs of building out and maintaining a disaster recovery site in the traditional sense where you would have synchronous or asynchronous replication to a remote array.

Once your data is in the cloud, it’s accessible from anywhere on the Internet. So, if there is some kind of disaster and you need to recover straight out of the cloud, that’s perfectly doable from any location. The need to have very expensive disaster recovery processes is changed dramatically by leveraging cloud technology.


Watch this feed at Foskett Services (or subscribe via email) for the rest of this discussion!

Filed Under: Transcript Tagged With: Amazon, Andres Rodriguez, automatic provisioning, backup, Cirtas, Josh Goldstein, Nasuni, snapshots, thin provisioning

January 7, 2011 by Stephen Foskett

RtF1.1: What Is Cloud Storage?

The first episode of Raising the Floor, the enterprise datacenter podcast from Foskett Services, features thought leaders from two key cloud storage-enabling companies:

  1. Josh Goldstein, VP of Marketing, Cirtas
  2. Andres Rodriguez, Founder and CEO, Nasuni

This discussion is moderated by Stephen Foskett, founder of Foskett Services.

We begin the conversation with a discussion of the general nature of cloud storage:

Stephen Foskett: Personally, I’ve been involved in cloud storage for quite a while. As both of you know, I worked for Nirvanix for a year, and even though I’m no longer there, I continue to be intrigued by the possibilities. Years and years ago, I was at StorageNetworks, which was one of the first managed storage providers as well, and ever since then I’ve seen that this is an idea that could work for the enterprise. So let’s talk a little bit about this. Let’s talk about the differences between managed storage services and cloud. What exactly is cloud storage? What makes it cloudy? What makes it something different than just conventional storage? Do you want to take that Andres?

Andres Rodriguez: Sure thing. The cloud is, first of all, a very large, very reliable multi-tenant environment. It is an environment where you’re going to be leveraging economies of scale, be able to operate things at a very, very large-scale, and share it among many, many users that are going to have a much higher quality of service than they would have if they were just deploying a small piece of infrastructure.

Stephen: Yes, because they have the economy of scale not just of the equipment, but also, the management resources. And one of the things that struck me was that at StorageNetworks, for example, and at Nirvanix, I found that these folks really focused on doing one thing well. They didn’t focus on doing everything. They weren’t generalists. They were very focused on a specific infrastructure, and I think that’s something that gets overlooked often.

Andres: That’s right. And I think one of the things that hurt StorageNetworks at the time was the fact that they couldn’t deploy the equipment in an efficient, multi-tenant way. And so, if you look at the new cloud architectures, (places like Nirvanix, places like Amazon) those systems are designed from the get-go to be shared among many, many users, and make very efficient use of the equipment and the software running it across that user base.

Stephen: Josh, what do you have to add? Are there any other characteristics that make storage cloudy versus conventional?

Josh Goldstein: Yes. I think the other main characteristic that you would see is the way that you are charged for the storage. So with cloud storage providers, you don’t have to pre-buy the amount of capacity that you intend to use up front. Everything is built pay-as-you-go, and the rates are usually extremely low compared to what you would be paying to buy storage to house in your own facility. So essentially, you get 100% utilization of the storage all the time. You’re never going to have a spare gigabyte in the cloud that isn’t being taken up by data that you put there.

Stephen: I think another thing that people often overlook is that you’re just buying what you pay for. Now enterprises might get a different model. They might buy a flat rate instead of this pay-as-you-go model. But a lot of people have said that cloud is just a business model. Is cloud a business model, or is it something more?

Andres: I think it’s something more. For instance, let’s look at one of the aspects. The systems are designed to scale in massive ways. So take capacity. if you have a system in the backend that can have only minute capacity that means that you can now design a storage system to utilize that endless capacity. Such that you never have to migrate data from one place to another because you’ve run out of capacity, which is one of the most common reasons why people have to migrate things from one site to another. So the characteristics of the storage system that you can build using cloud (and that’s just one of the attributes) really can change dramatically.

If you take reliability, the cloud architectures all make copies of your data across datacenters, across servers. Their guarantee to you is that your data will never be lost and you don’t need to back it up yourself.

If you can inherit those characteristics in a storage system that is useful in your datacenter as a business, that means you no longer have to back up your data.

Stephen: Well, I’m not sure everybody’s going to jump on that band wagon and not backup their data. I think a lot of folks might not feel comfortable not backing up data.

Andres: That’s right. There may be a process at the transition. It’s the same thing as keeping a power generator running or available next to your business because you’re still afraid that the electric grid may fail. That may be true for a while. Then, after a while, you just think having all that machinery around doesn’t really make sense.

Stephen: Yes, take that Josh. Is cloud more than just storage? Is cloud storage more than just storage capacity?

Josh: It’s definitely more than storage capacity. I think the thing that most people don’t really understand these days is how the cloud from reputable providers is architected under the covers. It’s not just that your data is going up and sitting on a version of the storage array that you would have in your own datacenter but it’s just sitting somewhere else. That was the way things were done 10 years ago when people first got into this business model.

Today, the cloud is built on top of process that are very difficult for most companies to replicate on their on. So, the price you’re paying to your cloud provider includes not just storing your data but also keeping multiple replicas of that data spread across different geographical sites.

You’re highly protected against not only a disk drive failure, but also an entire array failure or even an entire site failure where your information’s still is survived those kinds of events and is remaining accessible to your when you need it.

That’s something that for most organizations to engineer that level of reliability is extremely expensive and difficult for them. The cloud providers have been able to do that at scale and still deliver the capacity to you with that type of protection at a price point that’s really pretty amazing.


Watch this feed at Foskett Services (or subscribe via email) for the rest of this discussion!

Filed Under: Transcript Tagged With: Amazon, Andres Rodriguez, backup, Cirtas, cloud storage, gateway, Josh Goldstein, Nasuni, Nirvanix, REST

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